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- Item 3039537 20-Feb-91 08:49PST
-
- From: SATORI Satori SW, Hugh Rogovy,PRT
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- To: MACAPP.TECH$ MacApp Technical
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- Sub: MA3 opinion,for what its worth
-
- Ok, Ok, I can't just sit here and watch anymore...
-
- Speaking as a commercial developer (as opposed to an in-house, educational or
- contract programmer) AND a non-C++ programmer, I think the shift to C++ is
- basically irrelevant. The shift to MacApp 3.0 (regardless of language) is the
- more problematic issue for me.
-
- We need some of the language features C++ offers today that OP does not. Pascal
- 9x is an initial/unfinished specification, NOT a tool that will let me get any
- software development done today. There is no guarantee that it will ever see
- the light of day and even less chance that it will be available soon on other
- platforms. I'm tired of programming in a exiled language.
-
- I would think that that any competent OP programmer who puts forth a small
- amount of effort would be able to make the syntax transition to C++ (use the
- time you currently are using to rag on C++ to learn it!!!). The language just
- isn't the issue here. What we(I) really need a guarantee that MacApp is going
- to become design-stable (or painlessly updatable) someday. We wrote an app in
- MacApp 1.1 back in 1988. Three years later, it's still written in MA 1.1
- because after more than a few weeks of getting nowhere quickly, we gave up on
- a conversion to MacApp 2.0bx. For two years, we've been planning to completely
- rewrite it in MA 2.0 when "we can find the time" (we still haven't found
- it)...not because a MA 2.0 version will make it a better product, but because
- maintenance is becoming a nightmare. Am I going to find myself in the same
- situation going from 2.0 to 3.0 with the three apps we have written in 2.0?
-
- We need faster compile/link turnaround times. I generally use two editors and
- attempt to code while I'm waiting for builds. Quicker tools would eliminate
- this and let me stay focused on one section of code at a time.
-
- I think James is probably correct in believing that MA will eventually end up
- in ROM (in some small convoluted form). But, a no-source version of MA is not
- something I want to see soon (or later). I still haven't seen a shipping
- version of MA 2.0 final with the Technote #280 bugs-fixed. I don't have time
- to wait for Apple to update the software that all of my company's development
- efforts depend upon. I need to be able to correct MA problems in my apps as
- soon as I realize them. A true black-box object library would be a really cool
- thing from an academic point of view. But, I program in a commercial
- environment in which I create software mainly to make $ for this company, not
- an academic one. Anything that hinders that effort (unavailability of source
- code can many times be a hindrance) costs us money. It is true that source
- code for the toolbox is not available, but the toolbox wasn't followed by a
- 42-page bug report, either. I don't mean that as a slight to the MA team, they
- HAVE done incredible things. It's just that a general-use, object-oriented
- application framework is far more complex and difficult to tame than a
- collection of procedurally written ROM routines. It's going to be a long time
- before we can even begin to consider a no-source version of MA.
-
- Don't fight the shift to C++. Take advantage of the portability and language
- feature gains...or...if you love OP, just become a C++ reader and remain an
- Object Pascal coder. I think we can all handle that much. Like it or not, C++
- is becoming prevalent in the software engineering world (read through the ads
- in any PC programmers journal). Apple needs to move into the mainstream both
- with its' machines and its' development tools. Windows apps are/will be
- written in C or C++, isn't it obvious that Apple would benefit by simplifying
- the Windows to Mac porting process.
-
- Put your efforts and voices toward helping Apple to get MacApp feature-stable
- (or painlessly updatable) and bug free. Forget about the language
- wars...language choice is basically a meaningless issue.
-
- Apple, ship C++ MacApp 3.0. But from now on, quit pulling the rug out from
- under us with each MA version change.
-
-
- Chris 'sorry for the rambling style of writing' Le Croy
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